The times they are a changin?

[Imasmf]

I only discovered Jaxx in '08 I guess but at the time it was heaven for me! I'm two hours away in a town that thinks DMB is god. No metal here. I saw Doro and Pearcy at Jaxx that year and some others and through '09 as well. I also saw a lot on the calender that I couldn't make but wished I could have, Lizzy Bordon on Halloween sticks in my mind and still kick myself for not calling in sick that night! It seemed there were always 80's metal & hair bands playing there which is my choice in music!

Past few years a lot of 80's metal bands started touring again, mostly package deals but it seemed there there was a bit of a resurgence in the music. 3-4 day festivals started popping up like Rocklahoma, full of metal and hair bands from the 80's. I kept hoping for an east coast one but M3 is as close as we've gotten. Bet I saw more shows in the past two years then in the 10 years before that combined! It's been great!

I notice though in Jaxx calender as well as some other places that I keep an eye on, the old metal shows are disappearing and there more of the new metal, the black metal, the screamin, growling stuff. I'm not putting it down, it's just not my style. Also most small venues that used to have mostly 80's metal are starting to cater to other genres at least some of the time, like reggae nights, techno nights salsa nights etc

So a couple questions, i'd like to see what others think, and Admin I hope you'll be allowed to comment as well.

First off is the 80's retrotrain coming to a halt? Did the nostalgia run it's course? What happened to the others like me who were loving this stuff? What about the younger crowd I saw at shows, was it just shits & giggles to them and they've moved to the next thing?

If it's dying then is the Black metal the thing that will take it's place? Or is there just such an abundance of these bands that it's easier & cheaper to get them to play? If not black metal then what? Whats the next thing? What's going to keep live music alive?

Is it the genre or just the economy? Maybe venues with other genres are having the same problems? I don't visit them so can't tell. Are we all just too poor for entertainment?

Does it help a venue to branch out? Or does it just confuse and piss off the regulars who've come to love a place as it's been? There's always been a separation of venues, at least in large towns, you want rock you go to this one, you want country you go to that one, doesn't matter what night of the week it is you know what you'll hear if you go there. If you just want something to do one night do you really want to have to search the paper or venue websites to find out where to go or would you rather just know you can go to such & such place and drink a few and listen to some live rock or whatever your choice is?

And lastly and I hope where the admin can comment, What direction is Jaxx headed in? I'm curious if those reggae nights & salsa nights did well? Did it actually bring in more patrons and sales then if there had been rock playing? Maybe they didn't go on long enough to even tell? I would guess the first couple might have brought in some new faces, out of curiosity, then it probaly fell off to the sme or less then your regular crowd, am I close? I understand times are tough and Jaxx needs to try some things to keep going but if it's the economy then it's going to affect all genres and all fans so is changing up the format really a smart thing? Seems the old saying about a bird in the hand .. applies.

I know you talked about changes in the atmosphere as well and saw the posts from a few about how they didn't like the orange walls and hanging lights. if you read the posts they are full of emotion about it, it does get personal when you've come to think of a place as "your place" and then someone changes it up on you. That's just human reaction. I just wonder if there's more who won't bother posting, they'll just stop coming because Jaxx isn't what it used to be. Usually for every person who's vocal there's 10 more that feel the same but silently express their opinion.

Admin (and Jay) Please don't get mad at my post. It's not just about Jaxx, as I said I've noticed other venues doing the same things, it seems they're all kind of lost and floundering right now, trying to find a way to keep it all going. I feel bad for them all really, it's got to be a bitch trying to keep a place going in these tough times and I commend Jay and all involved for trying. I'm actually hoping people will chime in and give their opinions on this thread, kind of like market research, and maybe it will help you guys figure which way to go with things. Personally I would love Jaxx to stay the same as I found it, my refuge from the world, a place to travel back to a better time in my life. But the real and rational part of me knows change has to happen, I just hope it doesn't have to be too severe or too hurtful.

[Imasmf]

Just wanted to point out if you frequent Jaxx and read this post but don't comment or give some ideas, you really don't have any room to complain about the things they decide to do. Please give it some thought and post the direction you' think they should go, it may help them! I know a lot of us would like things to remain as they were and if we post from our hearts that's all that will come out of it, so try to think with your head instead, what makes sense, what would draw people in? What kind of promotions or specials could they run that might bring in some new people? Try to not only think about your favorite bands or music but also other peoples. It might take bringing in other kinds of music to save the music you want to see. Wasn't there rumor not too long ago that Jay was going to sell? I know I don't want to see that happen so if a few nights a week of stuff I don't like will save what i do like then I'm all for it!

Marketing ideas would also be good, not sure how much advertising Jaxx does since I'm out of the area but maybe there's some papers or places they should be advertising that they're not? Let's be Jaxx marketing team, lets do it right, looking at the big picture and giving some productive and useful ideas. Maybe they'll listen? I know if we just come on here saying "this sucks" and "I hate the new stuff" They'll just write us off as a bunch of whiners who got butthurt.

So I'll go first. My first idea to try and help was to start this thread, hopefully good things will come of it. Other ideas that have crossed my mind:

Jaxx should expand their reach. There's a lot of small towns like mine and there's people in those towns who hate them because there's no music they want to see. They probably never heard of Jaxx, it was there a long time before I heard of it! Being Virginia even some of the bigger towns get mostly country. Whats a rocker supposed to do? Can't help but remember how I felt after visiting Jaxx the first time, it was like a freedom I didn't have at home! So reach into those smaller towns, find the local rags, most have some type of small community paper that doesn't cost a lot to advertise. Maybe just a once a month ad with listings, once people start knowing it's there on the first fri (or whatever) they'll get to anticipate it and look for it. Maybe find the people who attend Jaxx now that live in these towns, when you have a big show coming up get them to tack up flyers at their record shops and such. I'd be glad to do it in my town!

Street team, why not? The bands have them why not the venues? Have signs on the bars where people can sign up, forms for info, especially where they live, email addy and any shows they're attending soon. When there's a show at Nissan or Merriweather find out who's going and get them to take some flyers with a calender on it. Street team can also be utilized for the small towns like mentioned above. If they have websites relating to music, make sure they have a Jaxx logo and link on it, maybe get them to promo up the upcoming shows. Also have some of them just keeping an eye on the net, especially sites that are local to your area, message boards are great for finding out what people want!

The actual music - I do think you need to hold onto your core audience which seems to be metal but there is a need for you to attract other people as the metalheads are dwindling in numbers everyday. You don't want to be doing what everyone else is though, you need to cater to the people whose music needs aren't met already, like you did with metal. Again because I don't live there I'm not sure what that is but I know here the people into the rap/hiphop scene are as desperate as us metalheads, maybe have a night a week for their music? Wouldn't even have to get big names but some smaller ones and also have a rhyme contest or whatever they call it. Flyers in the urban shops and not to be prejudiced but the sides of town that us metalheads might otherwise not go in. That's where the audience is and that's where the advertising needs to be. Get a local urban shop to donate some prizes in exchange for you announcing they did and promoting them a bit, maybe one cash prize as cash is the ultimate prize and something everyone wants, just need to make sure its not cutting into the profit margin. Besides the door fee you can also charge a small fee as a contest entry so maybe some of that could be the prize? The salsa thing may have been a good idea, I know we've gotten a big influx of mexicans in the past few years and they also have nowhere for music. Question is where did you advertise it? Need flyers in any local mexican groceries, restaurants, any store with a western union or moneygram that will let you put one up. Is there a mexican radio station up that way, an ad on there would be a must.

The interior decorating, that's a tough one because appealing to different crowds with different tastes requires different atmosphere. I'd just say keep it rebellious, most music is rebellious, the rap, hiphop, metal, hardcore certainly are. I wouldn't have artist pics up or anything specifically genre related unless you wanted to have different sections like maybe one side with one other side with something else. Kind of the way the sports bars do with a football section and a nascar section etc. I think a neutral ground is better though. should be dark but since black is associated with the metal scene maybe gray instead? Gray with red accents would work, seen that color scheme float through all kinds of music. Maybe some wall pics from rebellious movies? Or even better how about some murals? Find your local taggers and get them to do something cool, just make sure no gang signs and such get incorporated in it! Most taggers would do it cheap just so they can brag on it to their friends so wouldn't cost much.

The name - I know Jaxx has had some other names before my time there. Would a name change help? I'd hate it just because I know it as Jaxx but it's only a name and I'll get used to a new one I guess. If people know Jaxx as "the rock place" or "the metal place" they won't give it a shot for anything else. I can see the local hiphoppers now - "shit man, jaxx?? be fo real, that place for white boys, you think they know how to rhyme, fuk dat!" But a rhyme contest at that place that sounds new and has a cool name, they might be into checking that out. If you go with a rebellious theme you need a rebellious name. Hell I like "Rebellion" Just don't do "rebels" or everyone will think you went redneck! Of course I've always wanted to see a bar named "Hell" so when people ask what your doing friday you could say "going to hell" I suppose that might turn some people off though or cause the local churches to try and shut you down

ok that's all I got right now, I may come up with more later but now it's everyone else's turn. Let's hear it!

[Deac]

A lot of the issues you brought up really are more based on the current state of music and the economy, not just Jaxx in particular.

A venue like 9:30 Club or Rams Head Live admittedly draws more mainstream bands from a much wider variety of styles of music.  A lot of the time these venues get more bands that are popular at the moment and draw big.  If they are a one-hit wonder, they might have that one big night, and never be heard from at the venue again.  That is just how a lot of pop music goes.  Trends rule the day and make money.  That is why the venues that book these types of bands are actually doing well, because regardless of what the trend is, there is always the trend.  That isn't a knock at the venues for doing so.  Its good business.

Metal is a bit different.  Its been close to 10 years since any metal bands were actually getting airplay on top 40. Korn, Limp Bizkit, Disturbed, Linkin Park & Papa Roach were all frequently on MTV, TRL, and even pop radio.  Whether or not you like those bands, you knew who they were. Recently, its rare to hear metal on rock radio.  Look at those bands I mentioned there.  Korn is really the only one who kept their sound, and their radio days are long over.  Limp Bizkit faded away.  Linkin Park & Papa Roach evolved into modern rock bands, and it could be argued that the change made them bigger than they were as a metal band.  Disturbed fell somewhere between Korn & Linkin Park, and somehow managed to make it work from a marketability standpoint.

Lets look at the 5 biggest metal bands out there right now (aside from the classic bands).  Lamb of God, Killswitch Engage, Five Finger Death Punch, Mastodon & All That Remains are arguably the 5 big names in metal.  Not a single one of these bands is a household name the way Korn was 10 years ago.  If you were to ask 50 people if they knew who those bands were, a large majority wouldn't have an answer for you.  While all 5 of these bands are presently thriving, none of them are even remotely near the level of popularity that the bands of the late 90s and early 2000s were.  You're lucky to hear any of these on current radio, and with the sole exception of 2 am on Saturday nights, you won't be seeing any music videos on the limited amount of airtime that MTV or VH1 gives to music these days.

Naturally, touring relies on demand.  While the bands I mentioned above are able to headline mid-size venues, they are among the few that can do so.  Lesser known bands rely on these bands to take them on tour or they will sit at home.  Look at Adversary.  They signed a deal with Trustkill records a year and a half ago and have only been on one full tour.  That speaks volumes about the current state of things.  So now lets say Adversary decides to headline a show at Jaxx.  Even though they are from Northern Virginia, the majority of the area still has no idea who they are.  How would that draw?  100 people?  Now think about a band from another area.  A band called Rikets played Jaxx a few months back.  I can count on 1 hand how many people showed up.

Jaxx is known mostly as being a metal venue.  It has been that way for a long time.  Without bands touring, Jaxx is going to struggle.  Its pretty simple.  Now with several venues in Baltimore with similar capacities competing for a scant few tours that are appropriate for the venue, its obvious that Jaxx needs to do whatever it takes to keep business alive.  I've been going to the venue for 10 years now and I am also disheartened by the current state of affairs, but I also understand how difficult the current environment is. Plus, bands have guarantees.  I know a lot of 80s bands were mentioned.  Will a band like Ratt play with a $500 guarantee?  I doubt it.  That means to book them, it would require a higher ticket price.  How many people honestly are going to show up if tickets are over $30?  Plus, Jaxx now also has to compete with festivals like M3, Mayhem & Ozzfest.  Last year, for Mayhem Fest, you could get tickets for as cheap as $5.  Competing with that is mighty difficult.

The demand for 80s bands is a very interesting discussion.  In some ways, these bands are as big as they've been in 25 years.  Others unfortunately are struggling more than ever.  Kix still sells out just about every show they play in the area.  Yet Nelson reunites and plays to a half-empty house. Festivals like Rocklahoma & M3 are now becoming "destination festivals."  People are travelling from all over the country to see these.  Those shows are massive.  But at the same time, they are removing the demand for club shows.  You can see 15-30 bands at one of these festivals for the price of 2-3 club shows.  While many people prefer the intimate setting of a club, the masses will flock to something like that. 

The one thing that will hold up forever as a metal venue is regardless of the trend, there is always some sort of audience.  Deathcore & black metal might be the big thing in the underground today.  Those shows are helping keep the venue alive. They are relatively inexpensive compared to bigger name acts and generate very decent numbers. The trend will pass, and something else will replace it. Regardless of what comes next, underground metal is always going to be around.  50-60 years from now I'd be willing to bet there will still be pissed off teenagers yelling "SLAYER!" all the time.  I'm fairly confident that it could still be at Jaxx.

[Dave]

Most of what's above is pretty accurate, the other thing you need to remember, and it's a big thing, is that these metal shows sell tickets, but that's it, it's mostly kids so there's very low bar sales and most of them are poor so there's very little food sales. Some shows are lucky to break even between paying the bands and the regular overhead for the club, and many shows lose money.

So yes something needs to be done. And to make matters worse Virginia's ABC laws can be ridiculous. There are so many things you can't do and a lot that you have to do. If I recall drink specials are a no no unless they are the same every night, you can't have a special night of drink specials or something like that. There was a show that a Jaeger band wanted to get the Jaeger girls in Jaxx to promote and they were told by Jaeger "We'd love to, but we can't in VA." A lot of people don't know that in VA you HAVE to sell food and it HAS to be a certain percentage of your sales over your alcohol sales. All kinds of weird stuff.

So there's no magic answer and yes many things might need to be tried. They did the Rap/HipHop shows for a bit and they drew wel but there were a lot of bad incidents from what I hear. Reggae only did so so I think. The Hispanic nights haven't taken off yet but the promoter supposedly has done very well in other places in this area so we shall see.

I would much rather see 8 or 10 rock/metal shows a month in a "gay" (not a good word to use really) colored place than none at all.

[Deac]

you got that right about the younger shows.  I'm friends with the guys from Prodigium and will go to their shows from time to time.  I don't think there has ever been more than 25 people in the 21+ section at any Outerloop show I've been to.  The floor is usually packed, primarily with teenagers.  Compare that to a show like Kix, where multiple bars are required and the bartenders are constantly on their feet.  The bar ring (or lack there of) at Outerloop shows doesn't contribute nearly as much as the classic bands do.  Its just a shame that Kix is the exception and not the rule on how shows benefit the club.

[Alex Conti]

The Reason we don't buy food as much from the Jaxx isnt because the poeple going to the show are poor, no one wants to look at a poorley lit menu, then have to scream to the bartender what they want to eat.  If you at least put a Menu somewhere in better light, and have a less stressfull way of ordering then you will be able to sell more food.  Also no one is going to a club to buy a 20 dollar meal so I would put way more cheaper selections and meal packages and you'll get a lot more sales in my opinion.  Oh and Admin, I heard an advertisment for an event at jaxx on a VERY popular radio station in the DC area. There are only really two major Latin Radio stations so a lot of poeple have to be hearing about it.

[Dave]

I'll pass on what you're saying but I don't see another way of doing it, if you have any suggestions please pass them along. And there is not a lot near $20, almost everything is under $10 (take a look at the menu, it's on the website.

I am just now getting some of the info for the big Latin show, it will be posted soon.

[baaldemon]

Is there anyway you could advertise the metal shows on the radio with some of the local Rock stations?  The last time I heard a show being advertised on a rock station was when Ace Frehley was in town.  I dont know if this is cost prohibitive or not but it seems to be some radio time could increase sales.  The only time Ive ever seen Jaxx shows listed anywhere other than bands websites and the jaxx website is with the onion, and even then I have not seen a description of the show coming up, just a single line with band names.  I honestly think their is a crowd for these shows in the dc area, but without any real advertisement the word isnt out.  I was in the area for a year and a half before I found out about Jaxx, this was from a bands site showing they were playing in VA.  After I found out I started to regularly attend 2 or 3 shows a month, so I think some sort of advertising campaign could get the numbers up.

[Dave]

Jay hasn't done radio ads in years I think, the cost vs return is too high. Most kids that come to metal shows don't listen to local radio stations, same with paper ads, he used to advertise in the City Paper and the Post but it costs a lot and few people saw them, most of the people that come to Jaxx have heard about it from the website or a band's website (all of this is what I have heard in the past from Jay). And it's bad all over, not just Jaxx, I've heard from other sources that some of the smaller clubs are happy if 30 people show up. I know the shows are listed in some free listings sometimes but there's very little money to put into something with little return.

[eaeolian]

A lot of the issues you brought up really are more based on the current state of music and the economy, not just Jaxx in particular.

Well said, Deac. In fact, a there are a lot of parallels to 1996 right now, in terms of popularity. Unfortunately, there's no '80s holdover crowd anymore, local band promoting for people over the age of 21 is the weakest it's been in my memory, and there are good venues in Baltimore that will host death metal tours, which was a major component of what helped Jaxx survive the first time around. Things are also psychotically more expensive.

[Renae]

If anyone was there for the DevilDriver show you will know that it is possible to fill Jaxx from wall to wall and watch everyone have a good time. The bars were busy and Monica was flying around the kitchen like her ass was on fire all night. People are willing to come out and spend their money on alcohol and fried food but the event has to be promoted properly to get those people into the club. I am not saying Jaxx is at fault, it is the show promoters who should be getting the word out and letting the world know their acts are going to be on tour and get people to come out. It is up to everyone involved to make sure people know when and where shows will be at. DevilDriver has some of the best damn PR in this world.

I started hearing about this tour back in November and it is still being advertised daily online. The shows with the largest crowds tend to be the bands who have a prominent online presence. Not one or two messages or tweets a week, I am talking like several updates daily. At a minimum of at least one when on your or have a release coming out. Jamey Jasta (Hatebreed), Phil Labonte (All That Remains), and Unearth are just a few examples of bands who have had fairly good crowds at their shows in these tough economic times and they also have a huge web presence. Just look at their Facebook or Twitter pages and it is a constant stream of information for their fans when they are on the road.

You want to contact a large group of people easily and free? Facebook and Twitter linked together can be a powerful tool. You update one and the other is automatically updated. This makes it as simple as sending a text message to twitter with upcoming shows or the show for the night and people get that right away everyday. This is one area where I do think Jaxx is lagging when compared to the other venues in the area. The 9:30 club is the only one that does it less but they bring in the trendy ($$$) stuff so they don't need to. The venues from Baltimore and DC send out at least one update a day and sometimes up to 10+. Social media is the new method of hanging posters on buildings.

As far as having different types of events pissing of the regulars, if the regulars where coming that regularly then the changes wouldn't be happening. Nobody wants to see Jaxx ever close its doors so if we have to give up a few local crap shows in return for Jay pulling in some money on a Latin dance night then I am all for it. It also gives that tiny break needed to recharge my batteries and my wallet between shows. Hell, maybe some of us metalheads can learn how to salsa and still come out and show our support for our beloved music venue.

[PAZO2FAN]

This is just my 2 cents here.  I've been going to Jaxx for years. I love the place because they book many bands that I love but don't get to see anywhere else.   Unfortunately I live 2 hours from Jaxx and I have to be up for work at 6am.  Weeknight shows are not really an option for me.  I've only ever been to one weeknight show at Jaxx (Extreme) and that was because I ended up having the next day off.  Hell the ONLY time I have ever missed my favorite band, ZO2 at Jaxx was when they opened for Rhino Bucket on a weeknight.  They way I see it on Jay's page and the calender, it's now going to the that EVERY Fri and Sat nights are dance nights while rock shows are on weekdays only.  Thats going to put a huge hurt on my business with Jaxx because I can't be missing work or going in to work late all the time after Jaxx shows.  I know many friends that travel more than an hour to get to Jaxx shows.  I have friends that fly in from IN, OH, TX, and other states just for ZO2 shows at Jaxx because they don't get to see ZO2 in there area.  The weeknight shows are really going to hurt them too. I understand that not every band can only book weekend shows. And I understand that the dance nights needed to be brought in to bring in money and I'm fine with that.  Hell, having a mix of styles like the rap nights, rock nights, dance nights, ect is a good thing because it can bring in different crowds and hopefully bring in more money. What I'm not fine with is that every weekend is the same style. How about mixing it up. Maybe have a rock show on a Fri or Sat once every month or two. A couple years ago one of my favorite venues in Baltmore, went to doing dance nights on weekends and rock nights only on Thurs. Sales got worse and they ended up getting rid of rock shows all together.   I can handle the 8-10 rock shows a month in a "gay looking" bar but not on weeknights only.

[bikertom]

I

[Dave]

I'll let Jay know about the food thing, not sure what they can do really since they have the lounge as the smoking area so you have to be 21 and the bar in there isn't open all shows depending on the crowd, a hole to the kitchen from the concert hall side defeats the purpose since it would still be just as loud. Maybe they can come up with something.

Aside from Dance nights there will be Latino bands at times as well. I'm getting ready to put up a flier for a show on 2/14 after Nile that's supposed to be some huge Honduran Band.

I believe Jay said in his latest "Jay Page" that at least some pictures will be going back up.

As to FaceBook and Twitter, we have a Twitter account, as a matter of fact the Twitter feed is on every page of the website. I send out what info I can when I can but to be honest we just don't have that much news. I announce new shows and things like last night's postponement and I try to say things like "Tonight's so and so, be sure to be there" or things like that but even then it's only a couple of posts a week if that. There is a MySpace but I have no idea who's running it now, I think Emily is. As to FaceBook I'll try and get someone to do it, I simply don't have time myself. I designed myself into a corner trying to make everyone happy with the calendar and now any update I need to do I have to do in like 6 or 7 places LOL. Aside from posting in here, working on other parts of the site (I have GOT to get back to the Photo Gallery) working on 1 or 2 other sites AND my regular job that I work nearly every day at (or night), I have to find sometime to sleep ;-)

[bikertom]

Wow, you stay busy!  The Facebook updates wouldn't need to be frequent, 2 or 3 times a week is about all I would personally want to see anyway.